Mini Article / Errata Request (Discuss!)

[thetrueshyguy]

It's that time. It's time to make a few points to maybe have some minor changes made to the game. They call those changes...

Errata.

With the introduction of the card STUNNER! in the No Way Out expansion set we now have a first in WWE Raw Deal history. An action, that once played, has stun value. And it is a safe assumption that, since the action does damage, that if it reversed on overturn you are allowed to draw a single card for its stun value. Unless they say it's just for looks, we can say now that stun is no longer a trait of maneuvers and in actuality, a trait of all cards regardless of type. More evidence to this is the card that we saw printed in Armageddon.

#91/181
You’ll Really Be Stunned
Mid-match Action
Can only be played after a successfully played card with Stun Value.
When this card is in your Ring area, if you successfully play a card with Stun Value, your opponent overturns 3 cards and if he reverses a successfully played card with Stun Value, you may put this card into your Ringside pile and continue your turn.
¶ ¶ ¶ (Activated Card Effect Symbol)
Active
F: 1 D: 0

So whenever I play a card with stun value my opponent overturns. And since it seems now that any action with stun, any maneuver with stun and, not they exist at the moment, any reversal with stun would cause this result, I must now dig back into an old bag of tricks.

#497/643 Sweet Chin Music (I) (ULTRA RARE - FOIL - Shawn Michaels logo)
Trademark Finisher / Action / Reversal: Special
As a maneuver, can only be played after a successfully played 5D or greater maneuver.
As an action, this card is -30F and -20D, discard this card and put 1 other Maneuver card from your Ringside pile into your hand.
As a reversal, when played from your hand, reverse any Strike or Grapple maneuver and end your opponent’s turn.
Raw logo
Unique
SV: 3
F: 30 D: 20

Originally, when first printed as a promotional card, the card was able to pick itself up. It was quickly brought to the attention of the Raw Deal community that with the printing of the card Premiere Raw Superstar that a hand clearing infinite loop could be created. It was quickly rectified and the card Sweet Chin Music was given the word "other". If memory serves this errata happened before the card became tournament legal, but after the card had seen print. I could be wrong, but I think this was one of the fastest erratas in the game and it was quickly, and efficiently put into effect.

So now, assuming that the scenario of stun value being a CARD trait is accurate, if I play Sweet Chin Music as an action, and I have You'll Really Be Stunned in my ring area, they will have to overturn 3 cards. And with that said I will dig even deeper into my bag of tricks that have been out of commission for a while.

145/150 (ULTRA RARE - FOIL for B.A. Billy Gunn)
The One and Only
Trademark Finisher / Action / Reversal: Strike
As an action, you may discard this card to either draw 2 cards from your Arsenal or to place any card from your Ringside pile into your hand. Doing this will not cause any damage to opponent, and the Fortitude Value for this Action is 0F.
As a reversal, you can reverse any Strike maneuver and end your opponent’s turn.
Unique
SV: 3
F: 30 D: 20

Now since this card has never seen a reprint, to this day, it can pick itself up, over, and over, and over again. If You'll Really Be Stunned does indeed work with all card types, which it says it does, and STUNNER! being the first non-maneuver card (in theory) to have stun, one of a few things needs to happen.

Either A) The One and Only needs to be errata'd in the same manner that Sweet Chin Music was tweaked in that it is unable to pick up itself. B) You'll Really Be Stunned needs to be changed to "maneuver" instead of any "card". In my humble opinion, and with the creation of STUNNER!, A seems like the most logical course of action.

If neither of these steps are taken, I can see (and I am not the only one here) a literal One Move Billy Gun deck being able to 'go off' on it's first turn. Pop You One or Dirty Low Blow + You'll Really Be Stunned + B.A. Billy Gunn's ability to go get the only move in his deck (Side Note: I really miss the days of being able to do this before your draw segment) and you are set up. Billy's hand will be, in theory, small enough that this is a likely scenario: Opponent plays a maneuver. You play Sustained Damage. Maybe reduce the maneuver to nearly no damage. Then you You're As Graceful as a Cow on Ice their 3rd card. OR Opponent plays a maneuver. You play Oversell Maneuver. (You'll more than likely want to draw nearly no cards. There is no point since you will want to stay out of your opponent's Cow range) Start your turn, use your ability to get The One And Only, (You can just pick up your deck, pull it out if it's the only move in your deck and you can just give your deck to your opponent to look through saying "Here, take as long a look as you'd like!" ((Side Note: This may not be completely tournament legal, but it's sure a whole lot faster!))) play a Dirty Low Blow, follow that up with You'll Really Be Stunned, and then play The One and Only repetitively to cause your opponent to overturn 3 cards each time you play it. You won't worry about their Cow because your hand should be severely less than theirs and your fortitude rating should be 2 which, under most normal situations, will be less than the move they played on their first turn. (Only Vince McMahon could cause a problem there with your inability to play Dirty Low Blow which can be countered by packing Pop You One in addition to Dirty Low Blow.)

Now yes, it is a given that there are a lot of variables to even get this to work (I can hear the fan boys screaming "But what if..." and "I can stop that with...") With The Icon...The Show Stoppa...The Main Event (which searches for Sweet Chin Music) and Premiere Raw Superstar both being Pre-Match cards it was easier to see potential problems that this combo could cause and stop it before any real damage was ever done. But hypothetically the B.A. Billy Gunn "combo" can work quite well if executed well enough and thought out thoroughly.

So I guess in my own long winded way I am asking that an errata is made before something is made out of all of this or at the very least, I prey that all that I have just said is seriously taken to heart. I may be a complete nobody in some peoples eyes, but I am in no way new to the gaming industry (nor would this be the first errata I've helped generate in a major ccg.)

[Daeva]

The basis of your article is flawed, bro. The FAQ clearly states that hybrid maneuvers only have Stun as maneuvers to prevent this very abuse with You'll Really Be Stunned. The fact that STUNNER! exists doesn't alter that ruling.

It's the last entry on Stun Value in the FAQ:
-Stun Value is a function of a maneuver card when played; it is not applicable to a hybrid card played as an Action or Reversal.

[thetrueshyguy]

But think about it. Yes, the ruling there talks about it being a function of a maneuver. But STUNNER! isn't a hybrid card. It is a straight up action. It, as an action, either has stun value, or it doesn't. If the change to the FAQ entry is made to state that stun value is a function of a move or a non-hybrid action, fine. The change has been made which is what I'm looking for. Imagine if a newer kid playing STUNNER! only to have it reversed on overtun and he wonders about drawing for STUNNER!'s stun value. Either STUNNER! has stun value allowing the kid to draw or he's not going to be able to. "It's just for looks. It doesn't really have stun value." It's going to get complicated.

The basis of the article is pretty solid if people just think it thru. Every other card in existance (if memory serves) that makes reference to stun value says "maneuver with stun" or something close to that. You'll Really Be Stunned is the first card to make reference to "card with stun" (which CARD implies ALL types....moves, actions, reversals, hybrids) and STUNNER! is the first non-hybrid, non-maneuver card to have stun. If a hybrid action/reversal is ever made that has stun we now have a HUGE problem. (Theoretically) If STUNNER! draws stun, but this theoretical card doesn't then there's lack of continuity as to what stun truly is. If both do, it negates the FAQ portion of hybrids. Also lack of continuity.

Like I said in the article, stun value is now seemingly a trait of cards and not just maneuver.

[Ace Rimmer, Attorney at Large]

daeva said:

The basis of your article is flawed, bro. The FAQ clearly states that hybrid maneuvers only have Stun as maneuvers to prevent this very abuse with You'll Really Be Stunned. The fact that STUNNER! exists doesn't alter that ruling.

It's the last entry on Stun Value in the FAQ:
-Stun Value is a function of a maneuver card when played; it is not applicable to a hybrid card played as an Action or Reversal.

you cant say "clearly" here. because the FAQ you just quoted actually says something very clear here, and it really makes the Stun Value on STUNNER! useless. let me highlight it:

It's the last entry on Stun Value in the FAQ:
-Stun Value is a function of a maneuver card when played; it is not applicable to a hybrid card played as an Action or Reversal.

so clearly, this ruling can not be. not untill the NWO FAQ comes out, and they have to be careful about the wording on it. or we could have an even bigger problem on our hands.

[thefreak]

The problem you guys are having is that you think Stunner! is somehow comparable to the previously existing Hybrids in the game. It is not. It is a brand new card. It is a non-hybrid Action that has Stun. This does not allow Hyrbid Action/Maneuvers that have Stun on them to now work differently. In all the cases with Hyrbid Action/Maneuvers that have Stun, the Stun does not exist when the Hybrid is played as an Action - just like any text that says "as an Action" does not apply when that very same card is played as a Maneuver.

The ruling is this. On Hybrid Action/Maneuver cards, Stun is not and does not exist when the card is PLAYED as an Action. Thus it does not and cannot trigger Stun The Crowd/You'll Really Be Stunned. That is not saying that Stun can never be on an Action card or that Stun does not ever exist on an Action card. It is only saying that in regards to Hyrbid Action/Maneuver Cards with Stun, Stun is not a part of the Action half when the Action half is played.
This ruling has never stopped Hyrbid Action/Maneuvers with Stun from being able to be picked up by cards that reference Stun has it? No. You can still go and play cards like Back And Forth Action:

Back-and-Forth Action
Action
Shuffle 1 card with Stun Value from your Ringside pile into your Arsenal and draw 1 card.
When this card is in your Ring area, the player with the highest Stun Value in his Ring area may play his cards with Stun Value at -#F, where # is equal to the Stun Value in his Ring area.
F: 2 D: 0


:and shuffle up a Hybrid Action/Maneuver with Stun, but it does stop you from playing that Hybrid as an Action and getting the Fortitude Reduction it provides. And things like Stun The Crowd won't give that Technical Slam +1 Stun and +1D when you play it as an Action.

Stunner! isn't a Hybrid Action/Maneuver - so the rulings about Hybrid Action/Maneuvers with Stun don't apply to it. It is a non-Hybrid Action with Stun. It would/should trigger things like Stun The Crowd and You'll Really Be Stunned. But just because it can, doesn't mean that Hyrbid Action/Maneuver Cards with Stun should be treated the exact same way. They are completely different cards and as such get treated differently.

[Ace Rimmer, Attorney at Large]

the thing is that Stunner does require a new ruling entirely. we cant go by the current FAQ on it, because it states clearly, it is a part of a Maneuver. it doesnt say Maneuver and Non-Hybrid Action. it just says Maneuver, so Stunner! having Stun Value, as of the current FAQ, is useless.

[CreedP]

The No Way Out FAQ makes it clear how Stun Value works with Stunner, the OmniFAQ will reflect this as well in the next update. There is no errata necessary, as Nate has pointedly noted.

Sometimes its best to read the rules and not makes assumptions based on information that is not fact. That's not an insult, just something to think about.

CREED