Bring The Hammer Down

[Ace Rimmer, Attorney at Large]

now this rule is being discussed... sorry, we dont do that in this game... so the question was aksed about not having enough fortitude, obviously if you only search for 9, and are at 0F, it is an illegal play and Hammer goes back to your hand. new question:

if you go get a few cards, cant pay for Hammer, and the illegal play is triggered and it goes back, what happens to the searched for cards?

are the Shuffled in?

[(Team DX)Broken]

in my point of view i would say they would be put in the ringside pile, but i could be wrong and they get shuffled in?

so you know, i thought you have to cards text on the discussion to make the question easier to answer(that is what i was told from the sticky in rules question).

[kheneth]

my thoughts,

card text:

136/172 (PREMIUM RARE – Triple H)
Bring the Hammer Down
Strike + Strike: Foreign Object
When played, search your Arsenal for up to 10 Superstar-specific
cards, put them into your Ringside pile, and shuffle your Arsenal.
This card is -1F for each card put into your Ringside pile in this
way.
When you have 3 cards titled Bring the Hammer Down in your Ring
area, your card titled Sledgehammer Shot cannot be reversed from
your opponent's hand.
Cheater logo
Multi
F: 10 D: 10



from timing breakdown

2a Determine the Fortitude cost for the card, including modifiers. (Multiplication/division first, then addition/subtraction.) You may not play a card if you cannot meet the Fortitude cost, unless a ‘when played’ effect can lower the Fortitude cost; this effect can only be as a function of playing the card..
2b Determine that you can meet all of the 'must' requirements listed on the card.
2c Check that the Chain-of-Effects was not broken (if required.)
2d If any of these steps can not be satisfied, the sequence ends immediately and the card remains where it started. (It does not count as having been played.)
2e Apply any ‘when played’ effects.


I think the important part here is 2d. The end of that says "It does not count as having been played."
If it hasn't been played then any effects don't happen and you would not be putting cards in the ringside pile. Shuffling them back in is what I think happens here.

[Daeva]

Personally, if my opponent kept trying to play Bring the Hammer Down when we both knew that he didn't have enough SS-specifics in his Arsenal to actually play the damn thing, I'd call him for trying to activate an effect illegally and irreparably altering the game state.

However, since the opponent just looked through his Arsenal to try to make the play legal, he'd have to shuffle the cards back in. They wouldn't go to the Ringside pile because the card that tried to put them there never got off the ground.

(Silly Ace, you know that there's a Rules DISCUSSION Forum for this! I'm moving this there.)

[Ace Rimmer, Attorney at Large]

it was actually a question, i wasnt sure if it would be shuffled in. or i would have put it here to start out. it was a physical rules question.

[Butt Spawn]

ace said:

it was actually a question, i wasnt sure if it would be shuffled in. or i would have put it here to start out. it was a physical rules question.

Uh...isn't that what Daeva just covered? It's a question involving the mechanics of a card, aka RULES question, which you even stated in your post.

[Ace Rimmer, Attorney at Large]

but then he moved it to the discussion forum. it wasnt really a discussion starter. but i guess it could be.

the real discussion starter is this:

what do we do about people who will take advantage of this? because technically this is not an illegal move. you may elect to not find things, like with William Regal. so whats to stop us from going through and just getting 1, then having it be an illegal play, and then shuffling our deck?

[CreedP]

To what end? Once per turn you.. shuffle your deck? What loophole is that, exactly?

Fail to find doesn't really have an application.. the cards stay in your deck because it's not a legal play, you can't use it to put, say, Rolling Headlock Vise in your discard pile and pick it up with Beating because you didn't actually play the Hammer Down. If you can't make Hammer Down a legal play (just like JBL's Clothesline, see the FAQ entry for it), you can't use it to put cards in the discard pile.

Now, if you're trying to do something that lets you put cards at a specific part of your deck (top, bottom), and you try to do this to shuffle - you've just cheated. You didn't have permission to shuffle, that card went there for a reason. As a TO, if someone called you on it, I'd make it crystal clear that it was not permitted, and if it happened again, it would be an automatic round loss, no questions asked. If it happened again, tournament DQ, no refunds.

Trying to get around the rules for your own gain - yes, that's the very definition of 'cheating', isn't it?

CREED
Raw Deal Rules Manager